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► Full reference: J. Beyssade, "Compliance et gouvernance (exemple d'un groupe bancaire)" (Compliance and governance (example of a banking group)), interview conducted by M.-A. Frison-Roche on the occasion of a series of interviews on Compliance Law, in Fenêtres ouvertes sur la gestion (Open windows on management), broadcast by J.-Ph. Denis, Xerfi Canal, recorded December 12, 2023, recorded February 24, 2024

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🌐consult the presentation of Jacques Beyssade's interview on LinkedIn

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🎥view the full interview on Xerfi Canal

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► Starting point: In 2022, Jacques Beyssade wrote a contribution on 📝Feminisation of positions of responsibility in the workplace as a goal of Compliance, in 📘Compliance Monumental Goals

🧱read the presentation of this contribution ➡️click HERE

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► Summary of interview: 

Marie-Anne Frison-Roche. Question: Compliance and governance are often linked. Can you explain how, in the strategy of a banking group like BPCE, this link between compliance and governance is articulated?

Jacques Beyssade. Answer. Compliance is not just a matter of obeying the rules, but also, and perhaps even more so, of respecting customers, suppliers, stakeholders and members. For a mutualist structure, customers and member-policyholders are closer, they are the same social body, and so it's a matter of governance.

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MaFR. Q.: Let's take a concrete example, where Compliance and governance serve a specific purpose: effective equality between men and women, for example. How does this work in your Group?

J.B. R.: This objective is in the genes of BPCE, and in particular of the savings banks. The Copé-Zimmermann law requires it. We go beyond this constraint, at the level of governance. The management board, or executive committee, is egalitarian, and this also works as an example. Compliance takes up the baton, for example, by identifying talent, particularly female talent, and correcting any anomalies. 

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MaFR. Q.: In the future, can we hope that this alliance between new governance and the power of Compliance, with the same Monumental Goals, will transform our societies?

J.B. R.: Changes in society come from the behavior of individuals and companies, as demonstrated by the opening of savings accounts to women in the 19th century. Both can do a great deal, within the framework of regulations, by going beyond them. Through governance, for example in a mutual bank like BPCE, it's the members who set the rules, reflecting social movements because they themselves are representative of society as a whole. In this way, through the alliance of governance and compliance, they can act to give concrete expression to the fundamental social movements they themselves represent, through the broad representation of the social body that the member-policyholders constitute.

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► Full Reference: M.-A. Frison-Roche, Compliance and conformity: distinguishing them to articulate them, Working Paper, February 2024.

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📝 this working paper was drawn up to serve as a basis for the article published in French in the Chronique MAFR -  Compliance Law, published in the Recueil Dalloz.  

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► Summary of this Working Paper: The words "conformité" and "compliance" are sometimes used interchangeably, presenting "conformité" as the translation into good legal French vocabulary of "compliance", which would come from the American system. This is not true, however, because each of these terms refers to two distinct and even opposing concepts. 

"conformity"' would require companies to show that they are actively obeying all the 'regulations' applicable to them, regardless of their content. "Compliance Law" is a new substantial branch of Law that derives its normativity from the "Monumental Goals" targeted by the political and public authorities: these monumental goals are intended to ensure that systems do not collapse in the future (Negative Monumental Goals), or even improve (Positive Monumental Goals). The systems concerned are banking, finance, energy, health, transport, digital and climate systems. The scope of Compliance Law is therefore both much more limited and more ambitious.

Distinguishing between the two allows us to put conformity back where it belongs, as a tool of Compliance Law. As such, conformity justifies the collation and correlation of information, with the algorithmic system playing a major role in this. On the other hand, the human concern that underpins Compliance Law justifies making training and the actions of in-house lawyers, attorneys and judges, central to it. The evidentiary system of Compliance that is currently being developed is based on evidentiary techniques rooted on the one hand in the tool of conformity and on the other in the culture of Compliance, which can be articulated as soon as they are no longer confused.

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🔓read the working paper below⤵️

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► Full Reference: M.-A. Frison-Roche, "Main Aspects of the Book. Compliance Jurisdictionalisation", in M.-A. Frison-Roche, (ed.), Compliance Jurisdictionalisation, Journal of Regulation & Compliance (JoRC) and Bruylant, "Compliance & Regulation" Serie, 2024, pp. 11-38

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📝This article constitutes the first part of the Introduction of the book; its access is free

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📘read a general presentation of the book, Compliance Jurisdictionalisation, in which this article is published

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► Summary of the article (done by the Journal of Regulation & Compliance - JoRC) : This free access article ⤵️ explains firstly the general purpose of the book and secondly how the book is structured in 4 chapters.

Then, thirdly and following the table of contents, this article takes up in a few lines each of the contributions.

This is how the "main aspects" of the book Compliance Jurisdictionalisation become even clearer

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🔓read this article in full text⤵️

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► Full Reference: M.-A. Frison-Roche, "Adjusting General Procedural Law to Compliance Law by the Nature of things", in M.-A. Frison-Roche (ed.), Compliance Jurisdictionalisation, Journal of Regulation & Compliance (JoRC) and Bruylant, "Compliance & Regulation" Serie, 2024, pp. 273-28. 

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📝read the article

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🚧read the bilingual Working Paper which is the basis of this article, with additional developments, technical references and hyperlinks

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📘read a general presentation of the book, Compliance Jurisdictionalisation, in which this article is published

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The principal elements of this articles had been presented during the scientific manifestation held on September 23, 2021, at Dauphine University in Paris, coorganised by the Journal of Regulation & Compliance (JoRC) and the Institute Droit Dauphine. 

In the book this article is placed in the chapter II about the General Procedural Law in the Compliance Law.  

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► Summary of the article (done by the Journal of regulation & Compliance - JoRC): General Procedural Law is an invention, essentially due to Professor Motulsky, going well beyond the gain that one always has in comparing types of procedures with each other. As he asserted, there is Natural Law in General Procedural Law, in that as soon as there is the Rule of Law Principle there cannot be, whatever the "procedure", even the "process", such and such way of doing things: for example, to decide, to seize the one who decides, to listen before deciding, to contest the one who has decided.

General Procedural Law therefore depends on the nature of things. However, Compliance Law organizes things in a new way. Therefore, both the simple and iron principles of General Procedural Law creep in where we do not expect them at first sight, because there is no judge, this character around whom ordinary procedures fit together. The principles of General Procedural Law are essential in companies. Even if the regulations do not breathe a word about it, it is up to the Judges, in particular the Supreme Courts, to recognize this nature of things because on this effect of nature that  General Procedural Law is built: when compliance mechanisms oblige companies to strike, General Procedural law must oblige, even in the silence of the texts, to arm those who can be hit, even stand up against devices that would set aside too much these defenses that are easily considered contrary to efficiency (I).

But because it is a question of making room for this nature of the things of which the Rule of Law Principle entrusts the custody to the Judge and the Lawyer, the General Procedural Law must also adjust itself to what the extraordinary new branch of Law Compliance Law is. Indeed, Compliance Law is extraordinary in that it expresses the political pretention to act now so that the future will not be catastrophic, by detecting and preventing the realization of systemic risks, or even that it is better, by building effective equality or real concern for others. Because it is the Monumental Goals that defines this new branch of Law, a disputed systemic issue, possibly disputed by several parties before a judge, the procedural principles used by the court must be broadened considerably: they must then include civil society and the future (II).

General Procedural Law thus naturally acquires an even more place than in the classic branches of Law since on the one hand it imposes itself outside of trials, particularly in companies and on the other before the courts it involves people who had hardly any place to speak and thinks themselves, especially the systems entering the "causes" of Compliance now debated before the Judge.

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► Full Reference: M.-A. Frison-Roche, "Préalable : ce qu'est l'obligation de Compliance" ("Prerequisite: the Compliance Obligation"), in L. Aynès, M.-A. Frison-Roche, J.-B. Racine and E. Silva-Romero (dir.), L'arbitrage international en renfort de l'obligation de Compliance (International Arbitration in support of the Compliance Obligation), Journal of Regulation & Compliance (JoRC) and Institute of World Business Law of the ICC (Institute), Conseil Économique Social et Environnemental (CESE), Paris, February 9, 2024

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🧮see the full programme of this event

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🌐consult on LinkedIn a general presentation of this event, which links to a presentation of each speech (in French)

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🧱consult the scientific direction sheet of this event, which gives an account of the various speeches made

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🔲see the slides used to support the presentation (in French)

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🎤see a presentation of the conference "Préalable : ce qu'est un engagement" ("Prerequisite: the Commitment"), given at the same symposium

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🎤see a presentation of the conference "Le renforcement des engagements de Compliance par le renvoi Ex Ante à l'arbitrage international" ("Reinforcing Compliance commitments by referring Ex Ante to International Arbitration") which was finally not pronounced but will be the subject of an 📝article in the forthcoming book 📘Compliance Obligation 

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► Presentation of the conference: I have first dealt with the very definition of the Compliance Obligation.

After showing that the relationship between Compliance Law and International Arbitration will naturally develop, because the companies subject to it are international, because they contractualise their legal Compliance obligations and because Compliance is being jurisdictionalised📎!footnote-3379, the arbitrator being the natural judge since he is a global judge and the judge of the contract, I pointed out that Compliance Law does not simply entrust arbitration with the task of preventing evils, such as corruption pacts, but that it creates positive obligations for companies: to detect and prevent behaviour whose systemic effect is deleterious.

This culture of compliance is achieved either through compliance contracts📎!footnote-3380 (which outsource the handling of audits, alerts, the drawing up of plans, etc.), or through compliance clauses📎!footnote-3380, which are inserted into distribution or supply contracts, etc.; arbitration clauses are linked to these. Thus, the alliance between Compliance and Contract is an indirect mode of alliance between Arbitration and Compliance Obligation.

The obligation of Compliance which then takes concrete form consists for the company not in making effective Ex Ante all the regulations which apply to it (conception of conformity which is at once unreasonable, blind and impossible), but in making its best efforts, which it must make visible (see Compliance Evidence System📎!footnote-3381) to achieve Monumental Goals.

These Monumental Goals are systemic. The aim is to protect systems from collapse (Negative Monumental Goals) or to make them better (Positive Monumental Goals)📎!footnote-3382. By making companies accountable, via this Ex Ante Law whose object is the future, the systemic evils of corruption, money laundering, discrimination, climate change and hatred are combated, thus finding substantial unity. The Positive Monumental Goals aim to engender sustainability, security, respect for human beings, etc. in systems, be they banking, financial, digital, climatic, etc.

The role of the Judge, and therefore also that of the Arbitrator, is renewed.

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► Full Reference: M.-A. Frison-Roche, "Préalable : ce qu'est un engagement" ("Prerequisite: the Commitment"), in L. Aynès, M.-A. Frison-Roche, J.-B. Racine and E. Silva-Romero (dir.), L'arbitrage international en renfort de l'obligation de Compliance (International Arbitration in support of the Compliance Obligation), Journal of Regulation & Compliance (JoRC) and Institute of World Business Law of the ICC (Institute), Conseil Économique Social et Environnemental (CESE), Paris, February 9, 2024

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🧮see the full programme of this event

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🌐consult on LinkedIn a general presentation of this event, which links to a presentation of each speech (in French)

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🧱consult the scientific direction sheet of this event, which gives an account of the various speeches made

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🔲see the slides used to support the presentation (in French)

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🎤see a presentation of the conference "Préalable : ce qu'est l'Obligation de Compliance" ("Prerequisite: what is the Compliance Obligation"), given at the same symposium

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🎤see a presentation of the conference "Le renforcement des engagements de Compliance par le renvoi Ex Ante à l'arbitrage international" ("Reinforcing Compliance commitments by referring Ex Ante to International Arbitration") which was finally not pronounced but will be the subject of an 📝article in the forthcoming book 📘Compliance Obligation 

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► Presentation of the conference: Having defined the Compliance Obligation in "Préalable : ce qu'est l'Obligation de Compliance" ("Prerequisite: what is the Compliance Obligation"), I set out to define what a commitment is.

No one doubts that commitments, as words, constitute facts that can engage the liability of companies if there are inconsistencies or lies. The question today is whether a commitment can constitute a legal act, binding in ex ante.

Companies make commitments either to fulfil their legal Compliance obligations, which is simply obeying the law, or to express their own wishes, either for themselves or for others. The cases are often confused, even though the scope is not the same.

If the commitment takes the form of a contract, Compliance is concerned if the contract is used as an Ex Ante Compliance Tool📎!footnote-3383, either if the entire contract has this purpose, or if a compliance clause is inserted, and an arbitration clause may be linked to it.

The commitment, a concept that comes more from the Economics of Regulation, was conceived between a Regulatory Authority and a Company: it is the unilateral decision of the Authority that gives legal force to the commitment. Case law confirms this (Conseil d'État (French Council of State)📎!footnote-3384 and Conseil constitutionnel (French Constitutional Council)📎!footnote-3385) and this is particularly clear in Competition Law, but it is also true of the convention judiciaire d'intérêt public - CJIP (French Judicial Public Interest Agreement).

If commitment is central to Compliance, particularly Vigilance, it is because Compliance Law is an extension of Regulatory Law📎!footnote-3386. The company is forcibly instituted by the Compliance regulator, particularly in value chains, or on digital spaces (DSA).

In drawing up a plan, the company is fulfilling its legal obligation. But if we were to consider that it is a commitment, then we would also have to consider that the plan is the result of its will, that it must consult the stakeholders in its preparation, but that the source of the plan is its will: the provisions are not stipulations, are not applications of the law, but unilateral voluntary provisions.

In this respect, and because its source is the will of the company (which does not prevent its co-construction), a plan could contain a "graduated offer" of arbitration.

This offer could be included in commitments that are less regulated by law, such as those made in the context of CSR.

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► Full Reference: M.-A. Frison-Roche, "Le renforcement des engagements de Compliance par le renvoi Ex Ante à l'arbitrage international" ("Reinforcing Compliance commitments by referring Ex Ante to International Arbitration"), in L. Aynès, M.-A. Frison-Roche, J.-B. Racine and E. Silva-Romero (dir.), L'arbitrage international en renfort de l'obligation de Compliance (International Arbitration in support of the Compliance Obligation), Journal of Regulation & Compliance (JoRC) and Institute of World Business Law of the ICC (Institute), Conseil Économique Social et Environnemental (CESE), Paris, February 9, 2024

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🧮see the full programme of this event

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🌐consult on LinkedIn a general presentation of this event, which links to a presentation of each speech (in French)

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🧱consult the scientific direction sheet of this event, which gives an account of the various speeches made

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🔲see the slides used to support the presentation (in French)

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📝This conference and the Working Paper on which it is based are to be linked with the article to be published in the book📘Compliance Obligation 

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🎤see a presentation of the conference "Préalable : ce qu'est l'Obligation de Compliance" ("Prerequisite: what is the Compliance Obligation"), given at the same symposium

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🎤see a presentation of the conference "Préalable : ce qu'est un engagement" ("Prerequisite: the Commitment"), given at the same symposium

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► Presentation of the conference: It was initially planned that I would speak on the subject Le renforcement des engagements de Compliance par le renvoi Ex Ante à l'arbitrage international (Reinforcing Compliance commitments through the Ex Ante referral to International Arbitration), but it was agreed with the other organisers of the symposium that after defining the concept of the Compliance Obligation📎!footnote-3390 I would refocus my second speech, mentioned above, on what a Commitment is📎!footnote-3391, an essential prerequisite for dealing with the subject of International Arbitration in support of the Compliance Obligation. Developments on Reinforcing Compliance commitments through the Ex Ante referral to International Arbitration will appear in the forthcoming books: L'obligation de Compliance (in French), Compliance Obligation (in English). Nevertheless, if I had dealt with this subject, I would have raised the following points:

• The inclusion of an offer of arbitration in the field of Compliance implies considering it in a contract as well as in a non-contractual commitment, and studying which category of Compliance Obligation the offer may apply to.
• This insertion benefits from taking the form of a "graduated offer", in a crescendo organised by the company ex ante and offered to the stakeholders: conciliation, mediation and arbitration, in "circles of trust"📎!footnote-3387. This is supported by the current French amicable settlement policy.
• The result was that I had to prepare a long "preliminary" discussion of what a "commitment" is, without which it seemed difficult to talk in concrete terms about the effective insertion of an offer of arbitration if we did not know whether such links or words had a constraining effect on the person issuing them in relation to the person benefiting from them. After discussions with the other speakers, it became clear that it would be more effective to give a talk devoted solely to the question of the legal definition of commitment. We therefore decided to allocate this second speaking slot to the notion of commitment. Since the written words do not have the same constraints, it will take up the initial construction, insisting on the different supports, either compliance contracts, or associations with compliance clauses, relating to different Compliance obligations, in particular on information or audit or Vigilance📎!footnote-3388, because the company must have the legal power corresponding to the mission that the State entrusts to it through Compliance📎!footnote-3389.
• The offer must be carefully drafted to explain its purpose, and its organisation must prove the reality of this purpose: to give access to a judge to people affected by the company's activity, and not to block it.
• This will therefore be available in detail in the forthcoming books:
  • M.-A. Frison-Roche (ed.), 📕L'obligation de Compliance
  • M.-A. Frison-Roche (ed.), 📘Compliance Obligation

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► Référence complète : Ch. Lapp, "L’usage par les entreprises des outils de la compliance (d’une façon non-mécanique)", entretien mené par M.-A. Frison-Roche à l'occasion d'une série d'entretiens sur le Droit de la Compliance, in Fenêtres ouvertes sur la gestion, émission de J.-Ph. Denis, Xerfi Canal, enregistré le 12 décembre 2023, diffusé le 3 février 2024

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🌐consulter sur LinkedIn la présentation de l'interview de Christophe Lapp

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🌐consulter sur LinkedIn le compte-rendu de l'interview de Christophe Lapp  

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🎥visionner l'interview complète sur Xerfi Canal

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► Point de départ : En 2023 Christophe Lapp écrit une contribution sur 📝La compliance dans l'entreprise : les statuts du process, dans 📕La juridictionnalisation de la Compliance.

🧱lire la présentation de cette contribution ➡️cliquerICI

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► Résumé de l'entretien : 

Marie-Anne Frison-Roche. Question : Dans votre article vous affirmez qu’« il faut dépasser la conformité pour aller vers la Compliance », pouvez-vous nous en dire plus ?

Christophe Lapp. Réponse : Il répond que

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MaFR. Q. : On dit souvent que la Compliance est perçue comme une perte de compétitivité. Quel est votre point de vue de praticien international ?

Ch.L. R. : Il répond que

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MaFR. Q : Certaines entreprises s’interrogent sur l’over compliance ; que leur répondre ?

Ch.L. R.: Il répond que

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